In this interview with Hayden Aube, we learn how he has taken his graphic design skills to a new level – teaching others his own skills.

He shares his entire story in this episode of the Online Course Masters show!

In this episode:

  • Having success on Skillshare
  • Coming up with course topics
  • How to structure Skillshare courses
  • Why he hasn’t put courses on Udemy
  • Building an audience off of Skillshare

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Welcome to The Online Course Master Show. Where we learn from the best online course creators how to better create and sell our very own courses. I’m your host, Phil Ebiner and today I get to talk with Hayden Aube, a graphics designer and Skillshare instructor. Making his living through his online courses and art. Visit for show notes to watch the video version of this episode and see an archive of all our past guests. Please subscribe on Itunes, Stitcher or wherever you are listening and make sure to leave a rating. Help us get our first 100 rating, so I can know whether to keep making this show or not. Let’s get straight onto the interview:

Hayden Aube: Right now I’m in Toronto and this is basics where I’ve lived my life and up until the beginning of 2016 I was doing I guess a lot of different design related things. So I had done a three year program in Graphic Design and then after that I was trying like trying to be like get the branding, get into web design, I was doing like signage for theme parks at one point. And that was actually pretty cool. But I eventually ended up moving to England for 2 years.

And there I just I became like a contract web developer, like a Web Designer Developer and it was kind in that time that I realized that the thing that I thought I really want to do which was that I didn’t want to do. It became less and less enjoyable for me and I guess they became really clear to me that illustration was what I enjoyed that’s why I got into design. And so again that the beginning of 2016 I decided to stop doing all web design work and focus on making a career of illustration, however that looked. And very shortly after that is when I started doing courses on Skillshare, they have like this email to send to, I think a lot of people get it and it’s just like: Hayde, you’ve done projects on our site before, maybe you want consider teaching.

Phil Ebiner: Ok so you where are a student first.

Hayden Aube: Yeah. Phil Ebiner: Got it! Ok cool and for people listening and if you want to check out Hayden’s work, you can go to and you can see some of his beautiful work that he’s done, his illustrations are really awesome and you’ve got a really great website. And so backing up just a little bit though when you are doing website web design is that just freelancing doing that? or were you working for other companies? It was mostly contract. So I did like 6 months in one place then I did 3 somewhere else I’m just several I’m a few months next.

Phil Ebiner: Got it got it. Ok so you got the email from Skillshare saying: Hey you should teach an online course and you though oh maybe I should do that. And what was that process like creating your very first online course?

Hayden Aube: Um it was like a mix of like I guess like excitement and like nerves like even finding out like you know putting yourself out there filming yourself, it was definitely something that I had to confront but it’s also like I guess the long time I really wanted to do tutorials and that sort of thing. I’m and so it was kind of like a this is so right like I totally should be doing this. And so scary experience but also a really fun one and they do a really good job of bringing on your teachers I think. They have like these, what are they called?

Phil Ebiner: Like a lobster

Hayden Aube: Yeah like so every month all the people who are making the first class and kind of get together and get together online and kind of go through the process together there’s like step-by-step and there’s videos to watch. And it did make the process a lot easier to know that I had all these other people I can talk to and it kind of broken down into manageable chunks.

Phil Ebiner: Yeah what was like the hardest thing for you? What was the biggest thing the biggest hurdle for creating your first courses?

Hayden Aube: Oh yeah I’m going to say it was make the recording. Yeah that is like I really didn’t know what the experience of recording was going to be like and to come just yeah I didn’t done before and so doing it on it did take some getting used to it. And again kind of like confronting some weird feelings.

Phil Ebiner: Yeah being on camera yeah hearing yourself on camera, I know it’s really awkward for a lot of people in the beginning. What are your courses on now? What was your first course that you talk?

Hayden Abe: So the first course that I thought was on a using illustrator to make like a quick fantasy weapon. So it was went through the process of making this sword and since then the majority of my courses has been similar and that they are on how to achieve the desired results in Illustrator. Only exception is like my latest class is the material side, so it’s dealing with character design and how to kind of come up with cool backstories for characters but it’s primarily like a technical.

Phil Ebiner: Got it, ok. Cool. So very niche topics and I want to talk a lot more about the whole process of creating your first course and your course creation process. But I want to fast-forward a little bit and at first, how long have you been creating your courses? and what has created your courses allow you to do? And what’s it been like in terms of additional income for you? is it’s kind of a full-time thing now? or just part time income what’s it been for you?

Hayden Aube: Yeah so I started my first course was in March in that instance then I made 7 and this is now my primary source of income. Making courses in Skillshare.

Phil Ebiner: Nice!

Hayden Aube: Yes I really didn’t think that was going to happen but it happened a lot quicker than I thought to. Which was I think, I know that they’ve changed the payment model really recently, but at the time it was like it worked out to like every one person is your class, you get somewhere between like 1,2,3 dollars and so the first month the first month I got like 50 bucks and well because people take my class I was like is you know, kind of cool then it’s nothing to freak out about but it’s pretty cool. In my second month I made another class and then and it was like coming time to when I was getting paid and I was like ok so I have 1500 people taking my classes, now I was a big jump and I didn’t expect it but I’m like so the math tells me that I should make like 1500 but I feel kind of didn’t really believe it. And you know yeah it was like it should be this way.

Phil Ebiner: And Skillshare has always been a little bit funny because you don’t know exactly how much you are going to make at the end of the month. Like I have I started my courses in Udemy and you know exactly like when someone buys the courses, how much you are getting but on Skillshare, it’s like you are waiting till the 15th of the following months to see when that PayPal arrives and how much is it going to be. Now they have a few more stats and it’s based off of the minutes watched now, so you can kind of predict a little bit more. But it’s also really interesting because you’re the first person I’m talking to who started on Skillshare and it’s focused on Skillshare rather than a lot of people have talked to start on Udemy and maybe try to transition some of the courses on Skillshare. But you are having a lot of success on Skillshare and I think a lot has to do with the more creative classes do well on Skillshare but did you have an audience before creating your course? or like how do you even get your course out there?

Hayden Aube: Yeah so any audience it would be like just internet and friends, like so there’s a couple like some slack groups and like you know IRC?

Phil Ebiner: No I don’t. Hayden Aube: It’s like older like chat ways or whatever. But anyway just I have friends in these different place and I was going to show them some were interested and I think the thing that like made the biggest difference for me was, I was like I’m going to give away as many free enrollments to my classes as I possibly can. So nobody knows who I am, I don’t even know if my classes are any good, I just need people to take them. So I just continued to send them messages on Twitter and Facebook and stuff into my friends and anywhere people would actually see it like: Hey here’s this class it’s totally free. Like take it. And that made a big difference.

Phil Ebiner: Got it, that’s good advice. Now you’ve created you said like 7 classes right? How are you coming up with the course topics? And what are your plans for your future courses?

Hayden Aube: Yeah so what worked really well for me for coming with up with topics, has been like focusing on the stuff that I really want to improve my own work. So the second class I made which was the one that really kind of push things over the edge and it’s still like one of my most, it is my most part of the class. Was on getting a certain textured effect in Illustrator and that was something that I really wanted for my own work. Like I’ve seen people making really cool texture stuff. And I didn’t know how to quite do it and so I spent a good several weeks just trying to figure out what was a good way to do it for myself, that led me to create that class. The line like okay I really need to work on how I work with color so I did several weeks again of work exploring color and how to improve it and that led me to make my color class. And so that’s kind of been there been a classic to where that hasn’t been the case and I would say that those are probably the classes that I don’t feel as strongly about. But it’s been really kind of working is yeah the identifying where I need to improve, going and improving that and entering into class.

Phil Ebiner: I think that’s smart I mean if you have to improve it and you’re interested in, there’s probably other people out there thinking about those topics and coming up with those topics. And I think you’re just proof, that there’s a lot of people who in this whole online business world that I’ve come across, they think that the only kind of product that sells is the I’m going to teach you how to make money with the business or make money online. But your classes are definitely not I mean you’re teaching people real-world skills. And so I think what do you say to someone who is scared that they don’t know what to teach or what they know won’t make money on Skillshare or other platforms?

Hayden Aube: Yeah I guess like I would say: There’s no way of know it. I had no idea that my classes were going to take off in a way that they did. It was just like hey this seems the cool thing, maybe it works. Like worst-case scenario I yeah I get to kind of explore that and I can say ok, that doesn’t work for me. I will not do it. But they’re playing people, you known Skillshare, on Udemy, YouTube, all over the place doing not money, making courses.

Phil Ebiner: Yeah.

Hayden Aube: So it’s totally viable, there’s tons of inductor out there. Phil Ebiner: And a lot of people on Skillshare I find or from Udemy you’ve tried Skillshare feel like on Skillshare the game is like you have to be posting new courses every week and once you put the course, it has like a very short lifespan before no one enrolls anymore. has that been your experience? or do you have classes where they’re consistently, you know getting enrollment months after you posted them?

Hayden Aube: Yeah I’m so it definitely is worth acknowledging that like there is a two-week window after you post the class where the most potential for new people coming to it, like that’s you got in your training score. So there’s more chances that people just coming on Skillshare are going to see your class. But when I like when you look at like some of the classical sites that have like over 10.000 20.000 people take it, that’s not from that two week period, like the other classes that are just really good they stand on their own merits and they are continued attention for it and I and like I said, my texture class, was the second class I made and that still gets like one of the highest amounts of the enrollment because it’s clearly something that people want yeah.

Phil Ebiner: Yeah, cool how are you structuring your courses? like how long are they on average? and do you have like a structure that you follow for each Skillshare course with like an intro video or any sort of way that you structure your courses?

Hayden Aube: Nothing too concrete, every time I like make a course I feel like I figured out the formula. I’m like oh this works so well, I’m going to make every course like this and then, a mean it sounds like maybe that’s a similar feeling for you. But as soon as I get to the next course I’m like I have to completely redo everything this one it’s yeah it is I think I haven’t figured out I realized I don’t. So yes I would like an introduction of all done at the conclusion at the end and all the courses are based around I’m creating a project that’s just the way Skillshare is. But other that there’s no I’m constantly kind of fine-tuning and I’m trying different things for it.

Phil Ebiner: Yeah, so I isn’t talked about like some of these courses, you spend weeks kind of researching or figuring out the technique yourself and then you create the course? But once you have the idea, about how long did it take you to make the actual course?

Hayden Aube: Ok it definitely varies but I would say like if I know the topic, if I’ve done all like this efficient research and testing all that stuff. If I had a week of solid dedication like say 8 hours a day, I could probably put together but I would err on the side of like two weeks something.

Phil Ebiner: Nice, Ok.

Hayden Aube: Now sometimes I just want like animated intro or something that adds up taking like four days.

Phil Ebiner: Yeah.

Hayden Aube: So it’s yeah it’s again it’s nothing too concrete.

Phil Ebiner: I think that’s important for people to hear that you’re putting that amount of effort into your courses. Because again I think I hear a lot of people interested in Skillshare but they think they could create a course in a day or in a few hours and put it up and have a lot of success.

Hayden Aube: They could.

Phil Ebiner: You think it’s possible?

Hayden Aube: I think so, yeah I mean, I wouldn’t try for myself but I think it’s possible to do something maybe in an hour, day

Phil Ebiner: I do know that some people out there that have like courses and they publish them every couple days or so it’s pretty insane. Have you thought about putting your courses on other platforms at all?

Hayden Aube: So later on last year, I was very close to taking all my courses and uploading them on Gombert

Phil Ebiner: Ok.

Hayden Aube: For sale but I think I’ve got the point where like I recorded like in a separate intro in front of all of them to say like hey this is original from Skillshare but you know, just the kind of I guess like reaching new audiences and sell them individually. And I had everything all lined up already go and then I’ll just like wait like do I want to do this? I even like I even had a conversation with some of the people from Skillshare, my friends and my girlfriend stuff and it just I decided not to do it. It kind of made sense that like it made sense not to split my focus like that and the courses themselves like I’ve designed them for Skillshare. They’re based around a project that had appeared appear like community part to it. I think is really important and you don’t get that from Gombert. So rather than try to get people to go there and you know, by one of my courses. I would much rather put that effort into inviting people to come Skillshare to it.

Phil Ebiner: And what about Udemy? What’s your opinion about Udemy?

Hayden Aube: Actually I don’t know very much. I have not looked at teaching on there and having done of course there before, so you tell me.

Phil Ebiner: Wow that’s really awesome and interesting to know, because coming from Udemy like I feel like it’s like Udemy, it’s like this big marketplace and it’s like where you go to teach online courses. But I know and you’re a great example that there’s a lot of people who have never even heard of Udemy.

And from my experience, Udemy is great for more like bigger courses, not as much project-based, even though project base works and it’s a good way to like having an engaging course. I think if you took your courses from Skillshare and package them into a bigger course or you made it more like general like illustrators for beginners course, those are the types of courses that that do pretty well on Udemy. I’ve put some of my courses both on YouTube and Skillshare and they do decently on Skillshare but I know the ones that I specifically created for Skillshare that are project base and shorter, tend to do better.

So it’s just another idea just you know eventually. but I totally hear you about like splitting your focus and also like wanting to like respect the platform that you started out on. And that’s how I felt with Udemy, is like I started out there and there’s other opportunities and platforms out there. but at the end of the day, they like giving me so much that I don’t want to just like disregard them. But cool so you start teaching courses on Skillshare you don’t have an audience are you building an audience off of Skillshare at all right now?

Hayden Aube: I’m having a great idea.

Phil Ebiner: Yeah? what are you doing?

Hayden Aube: So I mean most of the audience that is outside Skillshare has come from Skillshare, but other than that I also have a series of shorter like 60 second tutorial that I’ve been doing from the last couple of months. And that’s been pretty great just like really straight to the point like what can I get across? is certainly an exercise for me like what can I get across in 60 seconds? And those are been going pretty well aside from that, I do like vary a little bit like writing kind of stuff and I share a lot of like the illustrations I’m working on about the process work in that kind of thing.

Phil Ebiner: And that’s showing up on your blog the writing that you’re doing?

Hayden Aube: I use Medium.

Phil Ebiner: Ok Medium, nice. And what about the 60 Seconds videos? where are you posting those? Hayden Aube: Like on instagram, YouTube, Facebook like all the places but part of the kind of 60 second constraint is because that’s the limit for Instagram.

Phil Ebiner: Yeah that’s cool, I mean I thought with my own tutorials, trying to figure out how to do that kind of thing you see so many of these videos or I’ve seen many of these videos in my Facebook stream flyby where it’s like this very short compact tutorial with subtitles and everything made for mobile viewing, it is a really cool thing to do. Are you trying to get those people onto your website or onto your courses from those videos or you just kind of like building that?

Hayden Aube: I mean like yeah I would I would hope that people like I guess my hope would be that people that people see those and they like the way that I teach top or the way I create Online Tutorials. They will be like ok well he also does longer length stuff on Skillshare, I’ll go check them out there.

Phil Ebiner: Got it, ok cool and back to the basics what equipment are you using to create your tutorials?

Hayden Aube: I’m using the webcam on the MacBook that you see right now and then have like just like the blue snowball microphone that you’re hearing right now and then oh and then I do have a digital SLR camera that I just started to use for video its nothing like super high-tech and I think by five classes were the webcam and the built-in mic and then just using like a quick time for screen recording.

Phil Ebiner: Nice, that’s like what easiest way to get started.

Hayden Aube: Yeah yeah well that’s mean I think that’s important too because like sometimes I think like a barrier can be like ok I need to have like no you see people doing really great courses and they have amazing equipment and it’s like oh man I need to buy all that shit before. So I’m like I can do it and I got like a really great response to my classes and I was using the most basic stuff that I have.

Phil Ebiner: Totally, I started was out with the blue snowball and for 50 bucks I don’t think you can get an easier and better microphone to use. Are you enjoying this episode? We hope you are learning to become a better course creator. If you want to learn to fast-track to 6 figures with online courses? Get your free 7 step guide to success at Let’s get back to the show. So I you got your YouTube channel you got your own website that you built what what didyou actually used to build your website is the custom design or did you use a theme?

Hayden Aube: It’s my portfolio, it comes with like a Creative Cloud subscription from Adobe.

Phil Ebiner: Oh cool, nice.

Hayde Aube: whoever has that it’s free just like my portfolio home I think it is.

Phil Ebiner: Wow I didn’t know that awesome!

Hayden Aube: Yeah it’s linked up with Behance too. So it’s like it also put a lot of my life work on Behance so it’s kind of an easy way for me to I guess I killed two birds with one stone put up there to show that on my site too.

Phil Ebiner: Nice and so you said that online courses is kind of your main source of income right now but are you still trying to get illustration jobs and doing that freelancing?

Hayde Aube: I’m not doing any like super active like prospecting I’m but some job still kind of come my way and those usually are the ones that kind of I guess finds me as opposed to me go see the other like you the better ones too.

Phil Ebiner: Yeah. Hayden Aube: And in addition to that I’m being doing around like some kind of mentor calls from Shirley, I don’t know if I’m supposed to say the name or not because like website coming that I’m going to be doing my calls and it’s a way to make calls income as well.

Phil Ebiner: Nice that’s really cool. So what’s like a typical day like in in your life as an online course creator? and kind of an online entrepreneur? what’s like what are you doing this week? what are you doing today? especially from this interview I think like sometimes people like that glorify the idea of being an online course teacher and it is glorious, it is really cool. But sometimes it’s kind of boring or it’s interesting to see what other people are spending their time doing.

Hayden Aube: Yeah I mean I feel like the most like important thing like it it’s always changing because depending on what classroom maybe making or what other area focus. Like right now I’m kind of I’m changing up those videos I was talking with the 60 seconds I’m kind of changing those up on there were once just about illustrator. Now I’m blogging in other different topics as well. So I do a lot of work into to that. But I’m I say the things that kind of my routine is that I do like writing in journal every morning I mean to me that’s very important and I put a lot of effort into not going on social media so much. So yeah. What it is good like something that I’ve discovered is like that I can actually make a lot of friends on Twitter and stuff and that’s actually really fun. But that also I can totally not get anything done by doing that, so I kind of have this like no social until after lunch sort of thing.

Phil Ebiner: Yeah

Hayden Aube: Yeah but in terms of like the day-to-day sort of thing like currently I’m getting ready to move to Montreal I’m because kind of in line with what I mentioned before the kind of learning something so that I can teach it. I’ve signed up for like a concept art program, so I’m actually now going to be going to Montreal for 3 months and like do a full intensive course. So that I may not be making classes for like three months so that I can actually learn a bunch of stuff and then make really great classes.

Phil Ebiner: Cool that’s exciting and so that’s a 3 month program is it through like a school or just what is it through?

Hayden Aube: Yeah it’s called Sense Studio it’s like it’s really big for like conceptive art for like video games and this school in particular does a lot of education for that. But I just kind of like track down people online who have taken the course and asked what they thought and you’re just like oh it’s so good like you have to go. So I’m yeah it’ll be kind of like a full-time student group 3 months.

Phil Ebiner: Nice so going back to your videos that you’re creating and your blog and you got Instagram, you got Facebook, Twitter, Behance all these other dribble all these other places have you is there one platform that you would suggest people focusing on if they’re trying to build an audience? Is this something that is growing faster than others for you?

Hayden Aube: Ok I mean, the one that’s growing the fastest would be Instagram, also given that I actually probably don’t do as much there is I do on my Twitter, so that’s probably worth noting. But I guess more important than that to me is like to use the platform that you like. Like for me I use Twitter and Instagram and mostly just those because those are the ones that I kind of have a fun time on whereas I tried really hard to let your Facebook a lot before or like I looked at Pinterest and people told me like that these platforms are really really great for building an audience. It’s just not for me up I think that I just kind of again like if I’d rather not put my focus.

Phil Ebiner: Yeah that’s what I just talked to someone else Jessica bars to is going to be on the podcast and she was saying kind of the same thing like there’s all these other platforms out there and you could spend a lot of time trying to learn new platforms, learn how to build an audience on a new platform. But you should really focus on what’s working and to your point you should focus on what you enjoy and figure out maybe out of work that platform rather than just not spreading yourself too thin. Cool so at the end of the day Skillshare it seems like a very viable option to grow an extra income. Are there any other pieces of advice in terms of just helping people pick a topic to teach? or just what seems to be working best on Skillshare that you can give our listeners?

Hayden Aube: I guess it’s just kind of like a recurrent theme but like if you’re thinking of teaching something like yeah make it something you love not what you think it’s just going to make you a bunch of money or you know, like yeah like my classes have it like ironically brought me the most money. But not thinking about making the money when it’s just about like making what I think would be really good for me or for other people. So yeah just you know I think it’s really cool because it’s like there is like an audience for everything online so like no matter what your thing is, like you can make videos about it and people who are like just the passion that you are will find you and they will do it and not yet they don’t get everybody like a lot of freedom to make the stuff I love.

Phil Ebiner: I love it I love it and yeah the online world is growing all the time and these platforms skillshare, Udemy they’re expanding internationally too. So really whatever topic it is, there’s going to be people interested in it and speaking of this expansion, do you have any what’s your vision for yourself in the next 3 to 5 years? and how are you actually taking action right now to achieve those goals?

Hayden Aube: So I have not thought that far ahead and pretty much as it’s usually like a 6 to 12 months sort of thing. Because I find like by the time that happens like what I want to do is completely different for it’s like. So right now the big focus for me is learning as much as I can in the next 3 months, so that I can spend the rest of the year making large great courses and that also means like, trying to get my illustration skills up to know what I want them to be which I guess is just like an ever-growing sort of thing.

But other than that like yeah I think I’m also trying to head in the direction of just having some more free time for myself as well to kind of get some more traveling and like I guess what I found is like I wanted to do like I think a lot of people want to you know, work freelance or like work from home or like because like I have all the screen and I can do like all this stuff. But what I found is like once I started doing the work that I really enjoy, I do so much of it and so now more than ever I need to I guess step back and do other things. Phil Ebiner: Yeah totally, I think it takes a certain person to be successful freelancing or being a course creator, but those are the type of people who when they do something like we go full force and we ended up, you know not taking care of ourselves and sitting in our office in front of a computer hunched over for 10 hours a day. And sometimes you gotta go outside even if it’s snowy in Toronto.

Hayden Aube: Yeah I mean like walking my dog has become like a constant because it’s look at me out. Phil Ebiner: Ok speaking of dogs before we wrap up My wife and I we’ve been thinking about getting a dog because we actually have two cats and we actually moved into a house and it’s the first time we have like a yard and we thought about getting a dog, you what type of dog you have first of?

Hayden Aube: It’s a beagle and Bulldog mix.

Phil Ebiner: Ok cool ok so how is how is the Beagle? how do you even decided to get that dog in the first place?

Hayden Aube: Um I think it was like I think it’s my girlfriend was just on like was online looking at it like we were talking about getting a dog we don’t know what we want and it was really like oh look at this, this is a really fun looking dogs, let’s get this one right let’s go check it out we really drove to this farm and there’s like 20 of these puppies and kind of rough those. And there was like one there’s one of the dogs that just did not really care that we were there. And so yeah she were like oh that’s the one I want. So we were sure enough like our dog is like basically she’s close to 4 now and she is incredibly like stubborn and doesn’t really you know, give us any attention and this kind of makes sense because that’s the one we picked.

Phil Ebiner: Yeah yeah it’s funny and this is personal so everyone listening right now isn’t going to care about this unless they like about getting dogs. So we have two cats and they’re really easy and so we weigh the pros and cons of being a dog, because it seems like it’s so much more work compared to a cat, but it worth it at the end?

Hayden Aube: I mean of course I’m going to say yes. But I mean I would state sorry?

Phil Ebiner: You’re not going to take back your dog to the farm.

Hayden Aube: No I’m going to haven’t done it yet so that’s probably a good sign. But I mean yeah, it’s definitely, it was more work than I thought it was going to be. I think like any person like getting a pet or something. I but I mean it’s great, like you know she’s part of the family now and yeah, we love her, so no way we did we get over we would ever bring her back.

Phil Ebiner: Nice, nice, Ok. Cool. Thanks for that those insider tips for dog ownership. I don’t think I’ve I ask you but this is there any other inspiration or books or blogs you follow that you think it helped people listening to this podcast?

Hayden Aube: Yeah I mean I’m just going to answer like based on what works for me.

Phil Ebiner: Yeah.

Hayden Aube: I listen to a lot of like the temporary Podcasts, that’s really helpful for me. There’s another one called Creative Pep Talk by Andy Miller which I mean I’m for any kind of creative person I find it find it very motivational. In terms of books this is again I’m related to what I’m talking about where I’m putting my focus. The books are called “Essentialism” and another one called “The one thing” and both those are really kind of great. yeah it’s just finding what’s the one thing you want to focus on and kind of cutting everything else out. It’s been really helpful for me and kind of deciding what I should and shouldn’t be doing.

Phil Ebiner: That’s awesome and I mean no one has mentioned those resources. So I’m going to have to check those out myself. So thanks a lot for that. And last question is how can people find you online?

Hayden Aube: You said it perfectly at the beginning like just From there it’s like all the social things are there and yeah I can be found pretty easily.

Phil Ebiner: Yeah it’s super easy to find of your Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, everything there. So cool thank you so much for being on the show. And I can’t wait to see your success and see what happens after you take your course in Montreal.

Hayde Aube: Cool, thanks. Phil Ebiner: Thanks a lot.

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